Prohormones

[BigTub]

OK...This is for anyone outthere with good, sound, HONEST advice...I have tried the WD, AED, Anabolic Diet, eating 5-6x/day...and I either get to skinny (lose too much muscle (WD,AED)), or gain mass along with the belly.
I REALLY enjoy the WD,AED style and concept of eating, I just cannot put on any muscle mass with it.
Right now, I'm just eating "clean" when ever I'm hungry, but I have gotten back the "bulge" of the belly. I have recently purchased protein powders, mass gainers from GNC and am waiting for an order of "designer" prohormones (P-Plex, M-Drol). I should have asked this first, but any thoughts on this.
Also, can you build muscle mass on the CFT training and if so, how?

[Nathan]

Hi Big Tub,

I don't think prohormones are the direct answer. You need to do some homework first.

How old are you? If you are under 30 then you still have a good hormonal profile to work with.

Have you had a blood test to establish your Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) levels. You may be producing enough of your own test but it may be "bound" and therefore your free test levels will be low.

The WD will work if YOU are suitable for IT. Here's a test I give my clients:

1. Get up in the morning, have 10 grams of L-Glutamine then go on with your day. Fight the hunger, if you have any. Repeat the Glutamine 3 hrs later. Are you hungry / still functioning? Have snacks from lunch time on as per WD principles. Do this for 3 days.

2. Get up in the morning and have a big bowl of rolled oats, some fruit and a protien shake - the typical "bodybuilder" style meal. Continue with the "meal every 3 hours" regime. Do this for 3 days.

3. Gauge your response to each. Which one did you function better on. (They are both valid dieting styles in my opinion).

4. Whichever you choose you must establish a calorie level intially. Some people tend to undereat, others dramatically overeat at night and therefore gain weight.

For the record, that's me in my avatar. I don't eat breakfast. It puts me to sleep and i feel bloated no matter what I eat. I'm a Police Officer in a pretty rough area and I need to be on my toes. My "breakfast" is L-Glutamine, BCAA and a fat burner. I'm 230lb at 5'7". My good mate is the same age, height and weight. If he doesn't eat a huge breakfast he shrinks quickly and he's one nasty SOB and has low blood sugar symptoms.

Supply some more info on what you are doing and maybe we can shed some more light on the subject.

[SPARTE]

Sorry but It is not warrior diet...........................

[CFTElite]

Hey SPARTE, in your under eating phase try to have more of the protien choices: Warrior Milk, Cottage Cheese, Warrior Colostrum, Warrior Meal Replacement, Poached Eggs. These are easily digestable and will still let your body detoxify. The recovery meals are very important also. With your dinner you want to have a good mix of high fat and high carb meals. Three days of high fat followed by three days high carb, then a detox day. You might also want to add some pumpkin oil to your suppliment list. This omega 6 oil will promote muscle growth, but be sure to still take omega 3 daily.

Barry S.

[BigTub]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Nathan, I am 32 yrs. old, 5'7", 165lbs., married father of 3 little ones and a full-time student and full-time worker. As far as exercise, I am doing Pavel's PTP 'Bear" workout on Fri, Sat, Mon, Tues.

Current Diet:
Breakfast:
 Protien shake w/Fish oil
Coffee

A couple of hours later,
Scrambled eggs
Sausage
 
Lunch:
Sushi
Water

Workout:
5:00pm

then, protein shake

A couple of hours later,
Dinner, (chicken, fish, steak, veggies, or sometimes takeout). I know this isn't WD, but I had been doing the WD for the past year, but somehow I am missing the boat on protein intake or something, cuz I am losing too much muscle.

[Nathan]

Hey Big Tub,

You're right, you do need more mass. So long as you train hard and modify your workouts regularly to avoid stagnating then the training side is covered.

You need to monitor you calorie intake closely. Pick a style of eating that best suits your lifestyle and give it a solid 4 weeks of consistency and gauge the results.

If you're going to go for the regular meals regime, then you are best to eat small balanced meals every 3 hrs. On training days aim for 2400 calories. Non training days aim for 1900 calories. Pay particular attention to your post workout nutrition. Remember that tomorrows workout is only as good as your recovery from todays workout. 25% of your protein allotment and 50% of your carbs can come in the two meals post workout - even if you train in the evenings.

Given your age the pro-hormones will work. However, I'm not a big fan of them. Despite any tactics you might employ you're still going to suffer a degree of testosterone suppression from the pro-hormones. While your body is trying to "normalise" itself you're going to feel pretty ordinary and struggle to maintain the gains you made.

In my opinion (and experience with male clients 30+) you would do better elevating your own test levels (tribulus, ZMA etc) and freeing up any bound test with a supp like Stinging Nettle. That plus good pre, peri and post workout nutrition will see good steady gains in muscle weight.

[CFTElite]

This forum is used for questions regarding the Warrior Diet or The AED. Unfortunatly Nathan your diet is not either one. I would advise you not to try and help people if your not doing the diet. You can gain muscle on both of these diets if the right rotation of meals are done. Big Tub I see with you dinner your not doing fats or carbs with that meals. They are vital and the fats will help you with your testoterone production. Read my previous post the answer is in that!

[Nathan]

Sorry CFTElite,

The batteries in my mouse packed it in before I could finish the post and everything froze up....

I was going to go on to use myself as an example of how to use the WD and grow a signigicant amount of muscle.

Like I said in my intro, I've used the WD principles since Ori first came out with it and it was much more restrictive back then.

However since my help is not required I will bid you farewell.

Good luck Big Tub.

[BigTub]

Nathan,
Please do not feel bad, I REALLY appreciate your input and advice. The link to this says "General Discussion, feel free to talk about anything you like", so thats why I posted this question (CFTElite).

I will give your (Nathan) advice a try. CFTElite, I appreciate your input as well. However, like I mentioned before, I feel I'm missing the boat on the recovery meals. As far as protein intake, does it matter if your getting 1.5 - 2G of protein/lb. or just stick with Mr. Hofmekler's advice of 45G of protein mixed in with fast assimilating carbs? By the way, what would be considered "fast assimilating" carbs?

[mrewing]

Just gonna say that you should stay away from the mass gainers.  They are loaded with sugars and do little besides pack on the fat.  It looks good when you see it has a thousand easy calories, but only a small bit is from protein and the rest are empty.  No matter what way you choose to eat, anyone besides those who sell those products will tell you to stay away.   Stick with straight up protein powder with milk and oats for your carbs.  Just my thoughts.  Good luck.

[DN Moderator]

You're right.  Also check the quality and source of your protein.  By all means, make sure that it's not coming from soy and make sure that the source and quality of the protein is good.

[BigTub]

I appreciate all the info. Thanks guys!!!