Dietary Fiber

[energizer]

I am practically convinced that fiber is not needed for digestion, and in actuality compromises proper digestion. Fiber tends to be found in foods that are the hardest to digest. Example grains are one of the hardest foods to digest and have one of the highest amounts of fiber of any food. Fiber is a bowel irritant and forcefully pushes these hard to digest foods out of the digestive tract.

The Masai African tribe lived off meat, blood and milk and had remarkable digestion and bowel health, likewise with native Eskimos. They had close to 0 grams of fiber in their diet.

I’ve been eating low carb the last few days, resulting in an inevitable reduction of dietary fiber and an increase in meat/eggs. My digestion became better after only one day. I don't have any bloating or experience stomach aches before reaching satiety and the insane flatulence I was getting in the morning vanished entirely. So it's not just information I have read, but also personal experience.

[verygood8888]

Hmmm I will have to try that.  I having digestive dysfunction for years and I eat plenty of fiber.  I will see how it works out. 

[DN Moderator]

I think a certain amount of fiber is important to the diet, but I'm sure it's possible to overdo it, which may be what you've experienced in the past.  Also, keep in mind that we're all different.  Some may tolerate it much better than others.  And then there's always the issue of whether or not you have diverticulosis or something similar to that.  You could also have a gluten sensitivity, which could definitely be affecting your digestiion, particularly if you're getting most of your fiber from glutenous sources.

[kelrivas]

After reading this thread I got concerned and felt like I needed to post...I have many years experience with low carb diets.

Please, please eat plenty of fruit and vegetables with any diet. A common problem with low carb diets is constipation. I know this from personal experience, and I know from being involved in many discussion groups about low carb diets. So many people think they can just eat meat and fat, lose weight and everything is great, but the truth is you need the enzymes in the fruit and vegetables to digest the meat and you need the plant fibers to "push" everything out. We are not obligatory carnivores...we need plant based fibers for total health.

Like our Moderator referred to, over doing it is not wise. Also the right fiber for YOUR body is important. I personally can not tolerate psyllium husks or just about any "processed" supplement that is a fiber. However flax seeds and fruit pectins are great for me as is any green vegetable fiber. If you are having trouble with fiber maybe you just do not have the right one in your body. Fiber should not make you bloat, it should make you regular

Also be sure to drink lots of fluid...that alone can cause real problems with fiber...

For me the beauty of the Warrior philosophy of eating is we do not worry about the amount of carbs, but we control the time of day we eat, the quality of the food we put into our bodies, and the right combination. It took me months to agree to try this because I was a die hard low carb eater. I am still very careful about my carb intake in order to control blood sugar spikes, especially grains, but the idea of not eating fiber is not promoted even in responsible low carb circles.

Kellie

[energizer]

Zero fiber is needed. Traditional societies with remarkable digestion and bowel health have proved this. Just like with the warrior diet and the sudden change in eaitng patterns can cause short term problems, likewise can the sudden removal of fiber. But only in the short term. There are no studies suggesting that fiber has any positive effects apart from a few correlation fallacies.

[Mippy]

Since every body is different, fiber may very well not be something that everybody needs.  For me, the lower the fiber count, the more difficult it is.  Without proper hydration and sufficient fiber, not to mention magnesium, I'd have severe elimination problems.  There is some fiber in fruits and vegetables,  but that alone doesn't work for me.  If it does for you, congratulations on a well-tuned system.  Most of us don't have that!

[kelrivas]

I agree Mippy,

Just because one or two groups of people thrived on a Paleo style diet of blood and meat does not mean all will. For example some bats drink blood and some eat plants and insects. If you take a vampire bat (frugivore) and give it the diet of a fruit bat (herbivores) you will be introducing a limiting factor into the group. Some may, if adaptation is on their side, survive, the vast majority will not.

You must also differentiate between soluble fibers as in fruits and vegetables, and insoluble fiber as in grains. Many people may not do well on insoluble fiber because they have slow metabolism, such as a thyroid issue. The fiber can cause more trouble than it helps. However insoluble fibers do not cause that trouble as much because it processes through the digestion track faster.

Again each person is different and their dietary needs are going to be different. I am not aware of any scientific evidence that supports  "zero fiber is needed" straight across the human species. In fact there are studies that suggest many people with low fiber diets have an increase in digestion issues and their rate of colon problems is higher.

Kellie

[energizer]

Problems resulting from lack of fiber only occurs in people who are eating a high carb low fiber diet such as refined carb products. This is because carbohydrates are the hardest type of food to digest (the definition of fiber is an indigestible carbohydrate...), and with lack of fiber they litterally are just stuck in the digestive system - hence constipation from eating things like white bread.

And it is not only certain groups of people who have shown they do not need fiber. For example arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson (a white man) and everyone who joined him on his expeditions had no problems when eating a traditional eskimo diet containing 0 fiber for months on end.

[kelrivas]

Constipation can also come from eating only meat and fat. Pick up any book Atkins wrote and it will give “ideas” on how to deal with constipation. Look at any low carb forum, it is loaded with questions on how to deal with it, usually telling you to eat vegetables…like celery, not more meat and fat.

Proteins are actually the hardest thing to digest (that is why GOOD digestible protein powders like Whey are important), with “raw” complex starches (roots) and some whole grains a close second. Only heat is needed to break starch down (as in cooking), but enzyme rich acid is needed for protein decomposition (as in digestion). What causes digestion trouble in most people is poorly combined food, and not having the right enzymes in the body to digest what they just ate, not fiber. However, we often change digestion dynamics with starches and grains by removing the fiber (processing) and cooking them which “pre-digests” them. Most Western cultural foods are processed, cooked, and combined with bad hydrogenated fats. That is a recipe for disaster.

Certain proteins, like soy, milk and even pork do not digest very easily in some people and are problematic to their digestive systems. If you are one of these people eating too much protein can send your stomach into spasms. If you are a fortunately person you might be fine with high protein and fat without worrying about digestion. However, high protein diets for extended time strains your excretory system. I would direct you to any medical book on digestion to learn more about it or ask a nutritionist about this for more info. Even low carb doctors such as Atkins and Eades explain digestion in very specific terms in their programs. Both doctors stress the need for fruits and vegetable in the diet to “aid” digestion, and that their “Induction” phase is NOT intended to be a lifestyle but a foundation for the beginning of their controlled carb eating plan.

In addition, if we closely examine the low carb diet it is really just a “right combination” diet at the Induction level, with parts of the puzzle missing. Remember, low carb diets never mix fuels because carbs are consumed only in relatively small amounts, especially in the beginning. I believe I have gotten better results eating carbs in the right combination as Ori has shown in his books, than just eating low carb. I also feel a heck of a lot better. Ketosis makes you grumpy and difficult to live with, just ask my kids lol...

I have tried many times to just eat meat and fat to lose weight faster before an important event (Atkins calls it a “fat fast”). You lose weight, but you get weak and foggy in the brain. Atkins does not recommend it past 14 days. I know someone personally who got very sick eating this way for a month and was taken to the hospital for dehydration and renal failure. The man in question eats very well, was only 30 lbs overweight at the time and in fairly good shape. It took him months to recuperate. I would not recommend this to anyone, he almost died. I would add here too he was drinking plenty of water at the time, but it was passing through him so fast it could not be retained in the body.

Harsh environments such as the Arctic or the Desert put a body into a survival mode and the body will (for some) adapt because it has a strong instinct to survive. For some though they will die…that is the natural selection process. I personally do not want to tempt it, my ancestors may have survived, but I may not be so fortunate. I have never felt my 21st century body is all that adapted to its environment. I will stick with the Warrior Plan, which promotes whole foods that have fiber.

Kellie

[energizer]

I disagree and most likely forever will. All there is in favour for fiber is some anecdoatal evidence. Claiming that some low carb people had trouble with digestion is not relevant because many claim they have improved digestion as well. High fat is all that is needed for proper digestion. Fiber actually irritates the lining of the intestinal wall, causing the cells to rip open and release...guess what? a fatty substance to lubricate the system.

Many people on low carb diets mistake improved digestion for poor digestion because they are uneducated. On a low carb diet, you simply digest more of your food with less waste. What this results in is sometimes going a couple of days withouting taking a dump. People are confused and think they are constipated, even though when they do go it is very smooth process. This is normal and beneficial.

Your point about harsh environments and adaption: When Vilhjalmur Stefansson reported his findings to scientists about the Eskimo's all meat diet providing excellent health he was of course not believed. (I do not believe that an all meat diet is the most ideal, vegetables provide enzymes and nutrients as Ori states, though I believe that meat should be the bulk of the diet). For one year him and a friend lived off an all meat diet under a strict medical study to document the effects. They followed the diet living an ordinary city life, as they noted that some, like you did, may say all meat diets only work in harsh environments. They ate all types of meat from restaurants, shops, wherever. At the end of the year they were both perfectly healthy.

To date, not one group of traditional peoples eating a high fat low fiber diet have been found to suffer from any digestion problems.

[sitges]

Energizer.
What in the world do you eat that gives you O fiber? I am very curious! Just meat, eggs and milk? SO no obviously no fruit, no vegetables, no nuts, seeds. no grains. How long have you done this? How old are you? Any serious medical conditions, yet? DO you have a socail life, friends, support group, family? I just struggle to live without dairy and grains and this is often impossible for ME (due to family dinners and soical obligations.) I am not tyring to sound rude just very curious what you could eat?

[energizer]

I actually do eat some fiber because I do eat vegetables,.but my diet is predominately meat. Why would I suffer a "serious medical condition"?. Because it seems like a rather extreme diet? The warrior diet is rather extreme as well don't you think? The warrior diet has plenty of historical and scientific evidence, just as meat diets do. Throughout history no predominately meat eating peoples have ever suffered ill health. They are always extremely healthy.

Social life? Of course, and yes extreme diets don't always fit into social circumstances, but that doesn't really relate to how healthy a diet is now does it...

I try to stick to my diet as much as I can, but when I can't I just go off it. I eat some Chinese food, or spaghetti bolognese if I am out with a group and that's where people want to have dinner. I feel it the next day, but I survive.

[ChenZhen]

speaking of "crap" food like the "chinese" food in the western world for example, i believe the attitude you have while eating something is almost as important as the food quality itself.

if you constantly worry about what you are eating will make you fat than the result will be much worse than just accepting what you have now and trying too see the "good" things in it.

the mind has lots of power!

of course that doesn't mean stuffing yourself with crap and telling yourself it will be good for you...
 

[verygood8888]

I agree!  The mindset has a huge impact on what you eat!  I know this from experience.  Don't stress out about the times you are socially obligated into eating unfavorable things.  Just accept that it will sustain your body for the time being and you can return to an ideal diet soon enough.

[chico]

i know ori does not recommend red meat, but i need it. i crave it, of course i use organic, free range grass feed meat and i hunt and eat rabbit and deer. i need little fiber BUT i chose to include fresh fruit and veggies and follow the warrior diet because you need to cover all the basis especially when it comes to health. + some fiber containing foods also have vital nutrients.

i am not spamming but i can understand energizers perspective and i am curious if he is type O blood? certain blood types are said to need different foods than others. i know Ori does not agree with the blood type theory. i trust Ori more than anyone else so i am just trying out the blood type stuff combined with the WD and so far the theories for O type blood especially the dopamine converting to adreline seem to relate to how my body works. and have explained alot of feelings or reaction i have towards certain foods.

now again its just MY body, which is blood O type and craves meat with little veggies and almost no sugar. my body runs best with protein and fat period. i cant explain it but i can see where energizer is suggesting that we dont need fiber.

BUT energizer take into consideration that everyone is different , and everyone has different ancestory. some are more or lesser evolved with there digestive needs. maybe different blood types need more fiber than others.

to each their own, and do what works for you ( but follow the WD because it works!)