Optimal Amount of Dairy & Best Time to Consume

[lorenmark]

Sup peeps,

Alright, I've been trying to figure what is the optimal amount of dairy to consume and when in the day. I tried a test on myself to see if dairy was even necessary at all in my diet, and the results startled me. I tried to control all other variables of my diet, and I cut out dairy for two weeks. I should also mention that my primary dairy intake is through all natural low fat yoghurt. Here are my observations:

- After a few days without dairy, my body 'appeared' leaner
- My body fat % during the entire two weeks stayed relatively stable (.5% reduction)
- My sleep schedule got all out of wack. I'd wake up several time during the night, my sleep did not feel refreshing, and - I slept longer. I felt more exhausted during the day too.
- Digestion after 5 days of not having dairy became erratic, uncomfortable, and irritable
- At about 10 days I became noticably bloated
- During the entire two weeks, my stress levels were consistently elevated

I can't say that all these were due soley to not having dairy, but I tried my best to control other variables, although I cannot control stress at work, quality of air, ect...

The day I reintroduced dairy was also noteworthy, I IMMEDIATELY felt more relaxed and that night I slept through the entire night and felt refreshed the next morning. My digestion returned to normal after a few days and I felt all around better. Of course, what did I do, I started eating a ton of dairy... and what happened? After eating too much dairy I felt bloated, my breathing was slightly labored, and I felt my energy level slightly decreased!

I thought I might share this as others may find it beneficial. I'm still trying to optimize the amount of dairy I consume. At the moment I'm consuming 1 to 2 serving per day, one with a recovery shake, one in the morning, or one with my main meal at night.

[Dano3000]

Keep in mind, your symptoms could also be what you replaced the dairy with. Being that dairy breaks down into opiates in your gut, I can see how stress would be a symptom. Also, being highly insulinotropic, it would make sense that you would be leaner without it.
But if you wanna eat dairy, you gotta eat dairy!
I would say the amount depends on your goals. You've experienced the side effects of a dairy bender, and adjusted accordingly. I dont see a problem with 1-3, personally. It's not like going over 3 a day will give you anymore benefits, but I may be wrong, seeing as how I don't do dairy

[lorenmark]

You don't consume dairy at all? Where do you get pre- and probiotics from? I know there are other sources but dairy carries them well, for long periods of time, and affordably.

I was considering trying a vegan lifestyle without any animal products whatsoever, but the more I look into it I come to the conclusion that humans are meant to take in a wide variety of foods - and it appears - they are healthiest when meat is a part of their diet (http://www.healthylivingnyc.com/article/117). "Part" is an important distinguisher, only eating animal products is obviously not a healthy lifestyle, as is I believe, abstaining from meat entirely too.

I've read some articles on dairy from dherbs.com (http://www.dherbs.com/articles/dangerous-dairy-238.html) and after reading that I never wanted to eat dairy again. I can tell the author is intelligent which, and many of his arguments rang true for me, but I need scientific evidence backing his claims.

Dano, you intrigued me that you don't eat dairy!!! I must know why!

[lorenmark]

After doing some more intensive research on dairy I must confess, I'm even more confused than when I began!

[lorenmark]

I've had a disorder since I was a child called petit mal, it's characterized as a blank stare often accompanied by foggy thought process and bad short-term memory. I've "grown out of it" in the fact that I consciously know when I'm doing it and force my attention back to here/now. There are other symptoms too, like forgetting peoples names even after I've known them for years... forgetting words mid sentence and such. After looking into dairy I'm almost wondering if my condition may be caused/influenced by a food allergy such as dairy, wheat or something else. This phenomenon tends to occur less frequently when I'm super conscious about what I'm eating. The "blank stare" almost never occurs anymore now that I intensely monitor my eating and physical habits, I'm thinking I should attempt to eliminate dairy from my diet again but incorporate the beneficial bacteria from another source, although most supplements I've come accross for acidophilus, bifidus, ect... are really expensive and not nearly as affective/alive as they are in dairy... I'm stuck.

[Dano3000]

Short Answer: I don't eat dairy because my condition worsens when I do, it's known to cause disease, its harmful, it doesn't taste good.


Long Bullshit Answer:
While I have dabbled in veganism, and extreme forms of raw veganism (For around half a year before I broke), I have come to the conclusion that animal products are a necessary component of the human diet as well (fortunately, unlike many long timers, earlier rather than later). However, Dairy is comparable to grains as far as how recently humans have been consuming it, and the detrimental effects it can cause over time (or in the case of type 1 diabetes, a very short amount of time.)
The evidence regarding dairy and auto immune diseases, cancer, diabetes, and more debilitating issues is striking.
http://www.examiner.com/health-and-science-in-providence/why-dairy-is-scary-autoimmune-diseases < MS rates associated with high dairy consumption, for instance. This is but one example you can find on the internet.
Although I am sure many on here will not agree with anything Dr. John McDougall will say simply because of his dietary recommendations (starch based low fat vegan diet), his citations are legitimate, as are his dietary recommendations for the avoidance of most modern diseases and disorders. His advice, in fact, has helped me with issues I am currently facing.
Nutritional Anthropology would state that gluten, dairy, and high intake of sugar (outside of the yearly honey binge; ask any tribe what their favorite food is and the answer will more than likely be honey), are all extremely recent foods. It is no coincidence that incomplete adaptation to these foods (i.e., the immune response that happens when consuming them) would open up the body to a host of diseases.
A lot of this information has been uncovered by the work of Loren Cordain, author of The Paleo Diet, and really the main pusher of paleolithic nutrition and the natural human diet. While I do not follow his dietary recommendations, I do believe that grains are especially problematic, as are dairy and sugar.
High intake of meat products, as well, illicits an immune response as the proteins break the blood barrier. When asking a paleo dieter about kidney issues, the response is usually, "Uhhh." It is my opinion that a healthy diet will not only maintain health, but also build it. This is why I do not follow the paleo diet to a key, though I do keep it in mind.
I believe we can not escape our evolutionary heritage as primarily herbivorous primates.
Currently, I am getting really into Dr. Joel Fuhrman and his Eat To Live philosophy. He states that we are in the midst of unprecedented nutritional opportunity, where we can essentially eat ourselves "disease proof". I would agree. A nutrient seeking diet, for me at least, seems to be what works the best.

[lorenmark]

Thank you thank you thank you Dano, your "bullshit answer" was really insightful! I greatly appreciate your thoughtful analysis, your helping me more than you probably know.

What do you do for the beneficial bacteria that is added to yogurt? This is the main reason I eat yogurt, are there other foods that I can get this from? I think I remember reading in the Warrior Diet that salsas, wine, and sauerkraut contain some of these strains of bacteria which aid in digestion. I've seen supplements for these but I'm wary, do you know of a good one, or even better... another food source?

[Dano3000]

Thanks!
There are vegetarian probiotic capsules that you can take. Udo's is a good brand. I used a bottle after a course of antibiotics.
Why do you need probtioics, though? Your gut can regulate its flora/fauna on its own if you're diet is consistently healthy. Fruits and veggies, especially, contain prebiotics, which ferment in your gut to create the flora/fauna it needs. It's all right there!
Its the aspartame, white bread, refined sugar, refined oils, antibiotics, celiac/gluten intolerance, dairy intolerance, low veggie/fruit intake, soda/candy/whathaveyou that would necessitate the need for a probiotic supplement, as far as I can tell.

[lorenmark]

The lack of sleep was not due to the lack of dairy, but caffeine (in the form of coffee) during the under eating phase. I've successfully cut out dairy for two weeks (for the 3rd time) and substituted Oolong tea for coffee. I sleep like a baby.

I believe my body is more sensitive to caffeine (as well as everything else) without the dairy for some reason. Without dairy I also taste things more intensely, especially spices. This could also be attributable to the reduced caffeine intake.

Im also finding it easier to make progress in terms of getting to my ideal body fat %. I've been stuck around 11%, but I smashed through it this morning... possibly due to removing the dairy and coffee?

I'm gonna let myself have coffee on occasion, I really really like exotic organic coffees... that dopamine effect is strong too when you haven't had coffee in a while.