help with WD routine

[cerebelumsdayoff]

Hi Everyone,

I have officially been practicing the Warrior Diet for about three months now (since late August) and I must foremost admit that the energy I have been experiencing has been tremendous in comparison to the days where I practiced eating several small meals a day.

I used to be phobic regarding fats, and would abscond from almost all fats (including essential oils such as olive oil, nuts, avocados, and et cetera). In retrospect, I would posit that this phobia accounted for the listlessness and lethargy I complained about and experienced during that time frame. I felt weak, sleepy, tired, and vexed all day; these experiences left me overly confused as I believed that I was following a truly healthy eating regime.

The day I accidentally stumbled across an article written by Ori discussing ten popular diet myths, my outlook on eating completely and drastically shifted. This iconoclastic approach had stirred much thought into the way people are really supposed to be eating. What really sold me was Ori's evolutionary approach to human behavior, as I consider myself to be an evolutionarist as well (I am a psychology graduate student whose main focus of research is in the area of evolutionary psychology).

With a grain of salt, I took the initial plunge, ate a large meal at night, and fasted the next day. After a few days, I began to realize how free I felt, not worrying about breakfast and lunch. To my largest surprise, I suddenly did not require my usual ambien prescription to fall asleep, as I was on this medication for over a year for insomnia. I have been clean off sleeping medication since the initiation of this lifestyle.

Needless to say, my observations over the last few months have led me to conclude that I now cannot even logically comprehend why people stress the importance of the three meal a day policy, as it seems unnatural to me. Even looking at processed foods and grains, I question the validity behind the popular claim that these products are deemed as proper food, which I claim otherwise.

Aside from the historical prattle, I would like to ask for some general advice regarding weight loss on the WD routine, which was part of the influences that led me to adopt this lifestyle.

Over the course of a year, I lost 80 pounds on the conventional restricted calorie plan, and have managed to keep the weight off despite the lethargy I have mentioned earlier in this post. Being on the WD allowed me to finally remember some foods I used to love but became afraid of because of their perceived notoriousness: cheeses, avocados, nuts, etc. As many people on this website claim, they saw initial weight loss in parallel to energy gain and overall positive results.

In my own perspective, I did see a tremendous gain in energy, but I have not lost weight. As a matter of fact, I am now afraid that I have been gaining weight. As Ori mentioned in his book, the best fuel source to lose weight is fat, avoiding carbohydrates. I naturally avoid carbohydrates because I simply do not enjoy consuming them. The closest thing to carbohydrates that I truly enjoy are fruits and vegetables; I eat those on a daily basis, as part of both the under eating and overeating phases.

During my under-eating phase, I generally consume these foods (If I even decide to consume solid foods):
             -Raw fruits, such as a grapefruit, banana, or an apple; eaten either in the morning or mid-day (one fruit total)
             -Multiple servings of tea, coffee (regular & decaf), and plain water
             -Occasionally, when the wallet allows for it, I drink an 11oz can of organic coconut water (it is delightful!)
             -Some days the only things I consume are the drinks mentioned above, whereas other days I consume both live fruits
              and drinks; I attempt to drink as much water-based drinks as possible to clean out my system during the day

The fact that I do not need to make time for breakfast and lunch anymore has been very beneficial with the graduate student schedule, as I have more time during the day to get my work finished while staying focused and energetic. At times, I enjoy hearing people complain that they are hungry while I am working in prime condition on an empty stomach (hence the iconoclastic approach of this lifestyle)

The real nature of my concern is the overeating phase, as I fear that I am doing something wrong. As I have mentioned earlier, I do not eat grains at all, and usually have a high fat meal each night. As advised by Ori in his book, I attempt to cycle between types of foods to avoid any possible allergies and sensitivities, especially with dairy (although I have recently made a switch to more goat/sheep milk based dairy products, as they are less allergenic and easier to digest).

My average meal looks something like this:

1. I start every meal with a raw salad consisting of organic spinach, tomatoes, and cucumbers, with an occasional sprinkle of organic lemon juice over it for an added zest.

2. My favorite second entree is a simple combination of raw baby carrots and hummus. So I eat a few handfuls of carrots dipped in hummus until I feel that it is time to move on to another flavor and texture.

3. I then proceed to cooking vegetables, either by steaming them or using a the saute method of cooking. These vegetables include peppers, onions, garlic, zucchini, eggplant, occasional artichokes (frozen) cooked in a plant oil such as olive or grape seed.

4. Sometimes I like to roast vegetables in my oven, such as whole eggplants and red peppers by themselves or with other cooked and raw vegetables or proteins.

5. As mentioned in the Warrior Diet book, and in accordance to evolutionary theory, humans have not adapted to digesting meat, so I eat meat sparingly, no more than once or twice a week. My protein sources then include either boiled eggs, an occasional smoked wild salmon, legumes such as chickpeas (hummus or canned), goat/sheep milk dairy such as feta cheese, yogurt or kefir, or nuts.

6. I really enjoy nuts, and I find that I tend to eat a very large portion of nuts at times, often losing count of how many handfuls I took. I especially enjoy almonds and cashews, with the occasional hazelnuts, brazil nuts, walnuts and pecans. One of my largest concerns is that perhaps I am eating either too much nuts, or unknowingly mixing nuts with a group of food that is not supposed to be consumed with them.

7. For dessert, I usually have either a small portion of dark, low sugar chocolate (usually around 85% cocoa), or some fruits such as berries, bananas, apples, or whatever else I have. I am wondering whether or not this could be the reason behind the weight gain I have experienced, but perhaps I am worrying over subtleties.

8. I conclude with a cup of tea or water.



I realize that I have just undertaken a verbose way of explaining my concern to everyone, including an arguably unnecessary history behind my initiation into the warrior diet lifestyle. I am a 22 year old male who is 5 foot, 9 inches tall, and weights approximately 157 lbs (Although I truly do want to question the validity of my scale, as just four days ago I weighed 151 on a more reliable scale I have at home)

I have no idea what my body fat percentage is, but I wear a size 30 jeans if that helps to put my body shape into perspective.

I will also admit that I do not officially exercise, rather my physical activity comes from life as a student: biking to and from school, climbing up and down 5 flights of stairs numerous times a day, and doing a lot of walking across my building and campus.

Can anyone offer any additional advice to me in regards to my routine, and whether or not there is something I must change to see more drastic results for fat loss.

My goal is to be lean, and I still feel that I am too flabby, although I do realize that could just be a product from the years I was overweight.

Any insight is highly appreciated; Thank you!

[Dano3000]

Sup dude. I'm 5'9, 130-135, ~8% bodyfat. Been following the warrior diet for about a year and a half now. Totally agree with how it just feels so unnatural to eat until you arent full (3-6 meals a day).
I'm going to be honest, I tend to gain weight when I eat fats and fats only as a fuel source. Not because fat is a bad fuel, but because, for me, it is incredibly hard to feel full when eating nuts, nut butters, oils, whatever.
The only thing that makes me feel full when following a high fat day is upping my veggies to...well, as many as I can fit in my steamer, then some more, and then a spoon and a jar of peanut butter until I am full.
I think the advantage that comes with eating fats as a fuel is only available if you are restricting your total calories a little bit. You can eat all the fat you want, but that wont teach your body how to burn its own fat, it will teach your body how to burn the fat you are giving it, imo. Calories still matter to some extent. If you are running a calorie defecit and eating low carb high fat, your body will tend to burn more of its own fat.
The thing is, this is incredibly hard, no fun at all, and way too restrictive (at least for me.) Plus I'm into cycling, and I noticed no matter how hard I tried eating fat and utilizing it, it just wasnt working for the higher end of my performance. I'm still going to try it for base training though.
I love carbs, I do better on them, Its how I operate. I under eat on a couple apples and veggies during the day, maybe some post workout protein (nothing heavy) just to keep my metabolism churning. Then I do the usual Huge salad, Huge serving of veggies, Protein (meat or eggs), Soup or tea, oatmeal/sweet potatos/barley/whatever carb i want to eat.
Counting my calories, I eat waaay less this way than on high fat days. Physiologically, especially after fasting or undereating, there is evidence that high fat foods disable the bodies natural mechanisms of feeling satiation. I think that evidence applies to me, and it might apply to you as well if you lose count of how many nuts you are eating.

Also, keep in mind that eating sweets after fat (only in amounts that would typically make up a warrior meal, I suppose) spikes your insulin if its been low all day (fat storage hormone). So imagine whats happening here: You eat all of this fat for your body to start burning, and all of a sudden your body sees sugar. "FAT, WAIT A MINUTE, HANG OUT HERE, I WANNA BURN THIS SUGAR!" your body screams, and it shuttles all the fat directly into fat cells while it switches to a carb burning mode.

It all seems to restrictive, imo. It seems like something to try and "do right" when eating should simply be "doing".
If I can help you in any way lemme know. Alot of stuff can be found with the search engine. Alot of people dont even come here anymore because literally EVERYTHING has been talked about it seems. I come here once in a while, still.

[fdnyceguy]

Cerebelum,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your eloquent, and somewhat academic, interpretation of the Warrior Diet. Having followed the Warrior Diet approach, for over a year, I can identify with your experience completely. Hopefully, as a result, I can help you in achieving your fat loss goals.

In many recent posts, I have complained about how vague The Warrior Diet (and Maximum Muscle Minimum Fat) can be, particularly with regard to application. Fortunately, this complaint has been followed with gratitude, and an endorsement, for The Warrior Diet Fat Loss Program E-book. After toiling for about a year with issues concerning food categorization (e.g. carbs, fats, or proteins), food combinations (what to combine and what to isolate), and the designation of meals (e.g. detoxification, high fat, high carb, and low carb), the E-book helped tremendously, in focusing my nutritional approach and overcome a lengthy body composition plateau.

With the experience and aforementioned resource in mind, I think it would be best to address your 'average meal,' and provide some insight and/or suggestions along the way.

Starting off with the salad (1) is a great way to go. Fortunately, this is clearly stated in both The Warrior Diet and the E-book. However, I would not recommend eating hummus (2) so early in a meal - and not at all during a 'high fat' or 'low carb' day. For a long time, legumes were an area of confusion for me (with the Warrior Diet approach). Though they are consistently referred to as a protein source, which they are, their significant amount of complex carbohydrates can not be overlooked. This point appears in The Warrior Diet briefly, but is not explicit in either the 'Sample Day' or 'What to Eat' section(s). This illustrates one of the food categorization issues I described earlier. In my own application of the Warrior Diet, legumes are only consumed during detoxification and high carbohydrate meals.

Your vegetable approach (3 & 4) is fine, though some may question the effect roasting has on nutritional value. Personally, I think the taste and texture results are worth it.

In my opinion, your problems regarding fat loss relate directly to improper food combinations, which are demonstrated in the remaining steps (5-7) of your meal (in addition to the hummus in step 2). The combination, for example, of chick peas and nuts (5) should be avoided, justifying your concerns (expressed in 6). To remedy this, try to isolate your fuel source (fat or carb), choosing a fat (nuts or seeds), a carb, or neither one (and having a dessert as described below), and plan the meal accordingly.

Similarly, as Dano illustrated, your choice(s) of dessert (7) may also break some food combination guidelines. Fruits, with the infrequent exception of pineapple or papaya, are better consumed during the undereating phase. Chocolate, if it is to be eaten at all, should follow a low carb meal only. The combination of a 'sweet' dessert with a 'high carb' or 'high fat' meal should be avoided.

Of course, it would be negligent to not recommend exercise, but your schedule is your own. However, I do recommend the Fat Loss Program E-book. If it is on your budget, you might find the application oriented approach as invaluable as I have in clarifying Warrior Diet principles.

Good luck with your goals.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

Dano and fdnyceguy,

I humbly thank you for your generous advice regarding my routine. As I read your posts and reflect on the ideas I obtained from reading the Warrior Diet book, the faulty combinations that I have been overlooking are becoming clearly elucidated.

As mentioned by fdnyceguy, there is a lot of sense to consider legumes as carbohydrates, as they are obviously abundant in that macronutrient. I will work on straying away from combining these legumes with a fat-fuel day, which has lately been the main source of my nutrition.

Second, in light of both your insights, I will begin to consume fruits only in the under-eating phase of the day. I would say that it actually feels better to eat them during the day on an empty stomach rather than at night on a full one.

I believe that there has been some more light shed on achieving the goal.

Thank you all!

[cerebelumsdayoff]

And I also have to mention: aside from the possible loss of nutrients, roasted eggplant is one of the greatest tasting dishes ever!

[Dano3000]

+1 on the roasted eggplant. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE baba-ganoush, especially with meat.
So I just checked out the E-Book. Lots of good information on what the warrior diet is, and what the warrior diet is not. It seemed to explain everything a little better, especially the whole undereating process. It was refreshing to read that this is not about total deprivation. The E-book, along with Max Muscle Min Fat, should have you ready and set.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

I did read the ebook as you have recommended, but it has also led me to ask a few more questions, specifically to what the published book says and what the ebook says.

Published Book: recommends trying a week of unlimited veggie/almond as main meal
Ebook: says to eat only 1-3 handfuls of nuts with small amount of proteins

Published book: high carb days are not necessary, as high fat days will lead to fat loss
Ebook: states that the detox phase (week 1) is based on carb consumption (legumes)

Another item that left me perplexed dealt with the portion sizes for evening meal

The published book states that one needs not to worry about the portion sizes that he/she eats, as they will instinctively know when to stop eating.
The ebook states that one should consume their veggies, then a 1/1 ratio of legumes/grains, then stop.

In the published book, there is a note that humans are not designed to eat meat, whereas in the ebook, it is stated
that meat has an essential amino acid that we are required to consume.

Perhaps I misunderstood the ebook information, but there appear to be some discrepancies between the two guides.

[Dano3000]

I read it as-

Published Book: What you said
Ebook: Focus on nuts, if you need to go without meat altogether to avoid "nut gut" then do so.

PB: Carbs are necessary, chronic restriction will lead to problems.
Ebook: For the purpose of detox minimize animal products.

As far as the main meal, both books mention the rules of eating, but the E-book turns them into ten commandments....ha.
I dont see the "stop" part anywhere, because its mentioned you should eat until you are pleasantly satisfied numerous times.

I'm having trouble finding anything about not eating animal protein in the published book. As far as I can see it is recommended to eat complete animal protein everywhere I look in both books.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

If I recall correctly, it was in the Q & A section of the 2nd edition that it was mentioned that Ori does not consume mean since humans lack an enzyme to break down a specific amino acid found in that food.

I can't provide a direct quote as I let a friend of mine borrow the book.

In either case, I started the detox plan of the ebook last night, and had an abundance of veggies (fresh & steamed), veggie soup, and a combo of black beans and quinoa. To my surprise, I woke up this morning weighing more than I did yesterday.

Either my scale is unreliable, or something is wrong is occurring, which brings me back to the original purpose of this post. I have been following the routine for a few months, but the supposed weight gain has been happening over the last several weeks, without any drastic changes to my eating habits. After reading everyone's suggestions, I did cut out fruits from my main meal and left them for the undereating phase, but I am still concerned that something is happening.

[fdnyceguy]

Cerebellum, the first, and probably most important, bit of advice I can share is to relax. Having weighed myself daily, for a time, I believe such fluctuations are more a cause for anxiety and/or aggravation than measuring results. In addition, in my opinion, it is body fat that you should be more concerned with than body weight. You may find that by keeping this body fat approach in mind, you may be able to resolve some of the discrepancies you have indicated.

I did read the ebook as you have recommended, but it has also led me to ask a few more questions, specifically to what the published book says and what the ebook says.

Published Book: recommends trying a week of unlimited veggie/almond as main meal
Ebook: says to eat only 1-3 handfuls of nuts with small amount of proteins

As indicated by its title, 'fat loss' is the focus of the E-book. The Warrior Diet text, in my approach, provides a maintenance program or more appropriately the Warrior Diet lifestyle guidelines. With this in mind, the E-book, naturally, will implement portion controls that do not exist within the text. This also applies to your question regarding portion sizes and instinctual eating.

Published book: high carb days are not necessary, as high fat days will lead to fat loss
Ebook: states that the detox phase (week 1) is based on carb consumption (legumes)

Once again, recognize the focus of the program or, in this case, the week. Detoxification is the goal here (providing another reason not to weigh yourself daily). By removing the potential toxins of meat and increasing the fiber in your meals substantially, you will prepare yourself, and your digestive tract, for fat loss in weeks to come. In time, you will find, that when your body and metabolism are in tune with the Warrior Diet, future Detoxification phases will maintain your body composition and/or even lead to further fat loss.

Another item that left me perplexed dealt with the portion sizes for evening meal

The published book states that one needs not to worry about the portion sizes that he/she eats, as they will instinctively know when to stop eating.
The ebook states that one should consume their veggies, then a 1/1 ratio of legumes/grains, then stop.

Once again, realize the goal of the program. With fat loss in mind, portion control is probably necessary. Furthermore, in my recollection, a detoxification approach is not spelled out within the Warrior Diet text, beyond the benefits experienced during the under eating phase. As indicated above, this phase will prepare your digestive tract for the upcoming weeks. In addition, the legumes, though high in carbs, as we discussed earlier in the thread, are also high in protein. Finally, there really aren't any portion controls defined in this phase of the diet, just a ratio. With this in mind, after loading up on vegetables, you could eat 20oz of beans (about 2 cans, drained) and 2.5cups of quinoa, rice, amaranth (or whatever your choice of carb happens to be). If stopping is a problem here, there may be bigger problems to worry about. In my own application of the Fat Loss Program, I've eaten this ratio with 2 pounds, or more, of vegetables.

In the published book, there is a note that humans are not designed to eat meat, whereas in the ebook, it is stated
that meat has an essential amino acid that we are required to consume.

Perhaps I misunderstood the ebook information, but there appear to be some discrepancies between the two guides.

I do recall the section of the Warrior Diet regarding the consumption of meat, and the human body's inability to utilize it. In 'Maximum Muscle Minimum Fat,' I believe, Ori cites his belief in Karma for avoiding the consumption of meat. For myself, it is a matter of choice, application, and availability. Following the guidelines of the program, should you choose to do so, will have you eating meat. The choice is yours. Personally, having little control over what I eat at work, when preparing food for myself I tend to minimize red meat, preferring eggs, fish, and poultry.

In closing, I believe your weight gain has to do with your adaptation to fat and/or carb fuels, or lack thereof. The three phases of the Fat Loss Program should help straighten that out. Furthermore, the program will provide a way to apply Warrior Diet principles continuously, after completing the three weeks. At that time, you can repeat the program , to reach a body composition you desire, or simply adjust the portions to create a maintenance program.

Experiment, see what works best for you, and share your results, insights, and experiences here on the forum.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

Thanks for the detailed response fdnyceguy,

I have been following the detox plan over the last few days, by loading up on my fresh and steamed veggies and doing a fair portion of whole grain/legume combo (quinoa and red lentils were a delicious match!)

As I do more reflecting, I believe that one of the most crucial elements that I have overlooked is the fact that I do not formally get any exercise, aside from trivial movements such as riding my bike from my apartment and school, climbing stairs, and walking.

I have been really interested in beginning a kettlebell workout going, as I believe that I would actually enjoy doing that, and such exercises appear to be beneficial with whole-body routines rather than single muscle isolations.

As the week progresses, I will get into phase 2 of the fat burning ebook suggestions, and then go from there.

[fdnyceguy]

Cerebellum:

Great idea to introduce an exercise regimen into your nutritional program. Undoubtedly, this will help you achieve your desired results faster. In my biased opinion, kettlebells are the way to go. However, any methodology that you will stick with is best.

With my biased opinion still in mind, I would recommend Pavel Tsatsouline's 'Enter the Kettlebell.' The book and/or DVD will provide you with two programs (The Program Minimum and The Rite of Passage), as well as definitive goals in kettlebell training. Personally, I've applied this primarily strength-oriented approach to reach my body composition goals. Hopefully, regardless of the methodology you choose, you will be able to do the same.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

I apologize for my long absence, but over the course of the last two weeks, I have started training with a kettlebell and I absolutely enjoy the workouts.

I do kettlebell (1 pood) three days a week for about 15-17 minutes and then, depending on the time of day, either have a light protein recovery meal or my main meal itself.

Although it has been only two weeks, I noticed my strength increase, and I am looking forward to the results that I will obtain over the next several months.

I did weigh myself this morning for the first time in a bit, and I was shocked that the display read 162 lbs. (keep in mind i was 148 when I first started the warrior diet)

The neurotic side of me immediately reacted by thinking that I have gained so much bad weight without a clue, as I follow the guidelines of the lifestyle.

Lots of veggies, no sugars, processed cars (I am actually not a big carb person, so my main meal is usually high fat), no mixing of nuts & grains/sugars, etc...

The rational side of me, however, posited that this was a combination of muscle mass increase and water weight, although I would be curious to see how many people here have had similar experiences. I read a lot about people declining in weight quickly with the lifestyle, so I am wondering if further insight could be provided. For now, all my clothes fit just as good as they did when I was 148 so I would like to hypothesize that this was not body fat, but perhaps something more positive.

[fdnyceguy]

cerebellum:

Reviewing the thread, you have a bit of variety with your starting weight (anywhere from 148-157 pounds). In the future, be sure to use the same scale, at the same time. Though the weight may be incorrect overall, the statistical value will be consistent.

With regard to weight, as indicated in a previous post, I believe that body fat should be a greater concern (and less likely to fluctuate as rapidly). Even more important, than weight or body fat, is your well-being. You say you notice an increase in strength, which is great. Though it may be a more of a neurological adaptation to the new regimen, be sure to keep up the good work.

Maintain a log, keeping track of your results, as well as the way you are feeling. Strength, stamina, and sleep are good things to record. This way, you will not have to question whether or not any future variance is positive.

Admittedly, I'm curious about your kettlebell regime, I will just thank you for providing the update.

[cerebelumsdayoff]

fdnyceguy,

You definitely don't have to tell me twice about the deviation of my weight! It may be plausible to say that I do statistics for a living (as a psyc grad student), so this dithering had honestly perplexed me. To put in in perspective: my mid-August weight (prior to starting WD) was 148 lbs, and when i checked it yesterday it was 162. I doubt that I could have gained 14 lbs of muscle, but I also did not look like I gained 14 pounds of fat either, which is the causation for my confusion over this situation.

Anyhow,

Result wise, let us say this: there was a strong positive correlation between starting the WD and getting off prescription sleeping pills. It seemed almost perfect that once I begun this lifestyle, I magically did not need sleeping pills anymore, and kept them away ever since. So in the realm of sleep, there is a huge plus.

As I mentioned earlier, in the realm of energy, I noticed that my stamina, overall energy, and focus dramatically increased a few days into the lifestyle, and it a wonderful adaptation for grad school, as I don't have to worry about making time for breakfast and lunch anymore, and can focus on other more important aspects of life.

Strength, two weeks into the kettlebell and I definitely feel much stronger! This little cannonball with handles is a wonderful tool. I must admit to be proud of it, as it hails from Russia, and I was actually born in the USSR, so the kettlebell and myself share a common motherland (read that in a thick Russian accent).

This brings us to the regime of the kettlebell:

-I do kettlebell every other day for around 16-17 minutes a session. I do not specifically have a set routine, rather just go through a series of exercises with either little or no rest in between.

Some sample exercises include: swings (both handed and single handed), halo, clean and press, turkish get up, various lifts to work the arms, and some others that I saw steve maxwell do in a youtube video.

After that, it is usually my main meal of the day, which consists of the following (on my usual fat day):

- A large handful of organic spinach with tomatoes and cucumbers
-A steamed head of either cauliflower or brocolli
-One steamed steamed zucchini, steamed 8 oz pack of mushrooms, sometimes half an onion
-Steamed eggplant (sometimes broiled because it tastes so good)
-Vegetable soup (my mom makes a killer beet borsch)
-Proteins: no real set type of protein, usually a combo of a few of the following:
           4 egg whites, 4 oz wild smoked salmon, bunch of organic turkey breast, organic greek fat free yogurt
-Fats: this is where my problem may lie, as I love love love nuts way too much, so I can eat close to a pound of nuts
in one sitting sometimes (combo of almonds, cashews, walnuts; mostly almonds). In the book, Ori suggests that one could lose weight eating nothing but unlimited veggies and almonds, but in the e-book, he says just one to three handfuls, which also brings me to the question of what the definition of handful is, as I can fit a lot of nuts in one handful. Could it be standardized to 1/4 cup of nuts.
-Addition: if i do not consume nuts that day, I may have an avocado for the fat, and use some olive or grapeseed oil in sauteeing some veggies.