Back Pain

[LF365]

Hi everyone I need your help ...

I have tremendous back pain. It is getting worse.  I've always had a weak lower back near the end of the spine. Now the pain has begun to migrate to the middle of my spine. My neck is stiff an painful too.  Sometimes the pain becomes unbearable where I can't bend over.  A slight turn or bend the wrong way and the pain brings me to my knees.  Eating to the point where I feel full makes the pain worse, almost as if that puts pressure on a nerve or something.   Working out now has become slow and cautious because any sudden move can cause severe pain up and down my spine.  I hardly do shoulder presses with heavy weights anymore because once overhead it causes a downward pressure on my spine.  I was able to do lying leg raises for abs without much of a problem before and now my back is tight and painful.  I just recently bought an inversion table and that seems to help while I'm on it but once I'm off the pain continues.  I sit allot at work and drive a long distance to work, so I know this is not helping my situation and perhaps it might be part of what is causing it, I don't know.

Does anyone else suffer from back pain?  What helps, what works?  What exercises are good for strengthening a weak back.

Thanks for your help.

[Rachel421]

  hi LF, this is my experience with back pain.  i have one leg that is slightly shorter that the other. i mean a fraction of an inch.   a few years ago i started a very physical job, in an acute care unit. after two years i thought i needed back surgery the pain had gotten so intense and so chronic.  as a last resort i went to a chiropractor that always had a flyer in our citys sunday paper. well, he said my spine was out of line with my hips and needed straightening. i started getting two full adjustments a week, by that i mean he adjusted the entire spine, not just a pop or two, to be drawn out over weeks and weeks. by the 4th adjustment i was in encredible pain. i thought he had ruined me, making things much worse than even before.    i nervously went to my 5th adjustment,,,after which i could barely walk an hour later....thinking about a lawsuit, i went to bed that night very regretful about seeking chiropractic care.  the next day my pain was much better,,,the next day much better,,,by the third day after my 5th adjustment, i was painfree for the first time in two years.    now i have to go in every few months to keep things aligned and pain free. i do inversion from time to time, but know i also need a manuel alignment on top of that.   hope this helps you to decide what path to take. i know every case is different  yet also,  how crippling chronic back pain can be.

[Ró-fhéinní]

i went through a 2 week stretch back in high school of continuous spasms in my back where the only way they subsided was when i laid flat on the floor.  i had a realignment done by a chiropractor that helped a bit but didn't fix it. he then gave me heat treatments on my back and coupled with acupuncture (i was desperate and ready to try anything) the pain went away. i was skeptical with acupuncture but it really worked and now i swear by it. i would recommend the chiropractor first then acupuncture if needed.

[Theo]

i'm not gonna directly advise on this one because it sounds quite serious, a nerve pain would make sense but i think that the underlying problem is poor movement patterns.

are you conscious of how you move? is your head straight? how d oou stand? are you relaxed and supported?

i wouldn't underestimate our ability to completely fuck ourselves with poor use of our bodies.

www.easyvigour.net.nz-pilates-howpilex.pdf

also a guy called roy palmer does a body awareness course, you can probably find the link somewhere on this forum i think i gave it out once before.

that's something to look at.

also somethign that MIGHT give you relief from your back pain. start slowly and be careful yeah?

okay basically, from standing or sitting upright, raise your chin ever so slightlyhold your arms out to the sides flexed at the elbows. now, twist! it's like wringing out your spine. as i said be careful. i have a suspicion that your knee hurts more during twistign movements so i would suggest performing the sittign variation first. this feels great and can remedy a lot of situations on the short term, but a complete rehabilitation will require changes to how you use your body.

other things to do when you've got more mobility, calisthenics, nice n easy.

lunges- stretches psoas, strengthens posterior chain. ( keep core tight while going down)
zipping up - see pilates link
plank - strengthens core
superman - strengthens spinal erectors
hip circles - go slowly, very helpful

and finally a word from personal experience, watch deadlift form, using your back as a prime mover instead of a stabiliser during a heavy deadlift can cause spectacular sacral pain similar to your description. adversely a well performed deadlifts and suitcase deadlifts can make your back very strong and resistant to injury.

i feel for ya man, hope somethign here works

[LF365]

 Hey thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate it.  Okay here is the strange thing. I woke up yesterday and my back was so sore I could hardly get ready for work.  As the day progressed the back pain lessened. I think part of it is due to stiff muscles from sitting all day.

Last year we had a really bad snow storm and I was stopped at a light, this lady tried to stop and hit the back of my car. I felt my body jerk forward. It was only like 2-5 miles per hour, really slow. We got out and there was no damage to our cars so we went our separate ways.  About a month later is when my back started to hurt more than usual.  I found out that whiplash can happen months after being hit, and most car insurance companies here in the USA know this and will allow a personal injury claim up to, I think 90 days after being hit.  had I known whiplash could be delayed and had I known about filing a late claim I would have.   Just so everyone knows If you ever get into an accident or if anyone hits you from behind, no matter how small it may seem ALWAYS exchange information and ALWAYS go to a doctor  even if you don't feel any pain right away.   That was part of my mistake.  That accident isn't the major reason for my back pain but it sure an heck didn't help it any.

Rachel, 
 Yeah,   I went to a chiropractor in my mid 20's. He found that my spine was slightly curved which caused my hips to be slightly elevated on one side causing one leg to be slightly shorter than the other.  It's nothing major though.   I  lived with it all my life and got used to it. I had some chiropractic adjustments but nothing changed.  Thanks for the advise on that.

Ró-fhéinní,
Thanks I just may try acupuncture.  Massage therapy also works too like the deep tissue type.  I think part of my issue is stiff muscles from lack of back exercises from sitting all day, combined with pressure of sitting all day on the disks, combined with my already weak back.   

Wolf,
I think you might be right about a few things. Poor movement and also lack of movement. Poor posture.  I sit all day long at work and my only form of exercise is when I go to the gym.  Yesterday  I took extra care to notice how I was sitting and I'm not sitting up properly. Sometimes I find myself slumping.   I read that when sitting your chin should not extend beyond your chest. In other words, doing so causes improper stress on the spine.   I'm tall, 6'2" so when I was younger, teenage years mostly,  I was always self conscience about my height and I would slump as to not appear so tall.  Crazy huh? the insecurities we have when we are young?! LOL!  As I got older though, I realized being tall is what most guys wish they could be!  I walk tall now.   

As far as deadlifts are concerned, I've given up on those. I can't do those anymore. I think If I did I might fall to my knees in pain.   I hired  a triple certified personal trainer a couple  years ago who showed me all the proper forms. W hen I was doing them they were correct.  The more I read about deadlifts the more I'm finding out how bad they are for the back. More so as you get older.  In your 20's and 30's the body can hack it but a life long of those for many people can be hard on the spine. 

I'm not familiar with those exercises is there a good book you can recommend?   

I think what I'm going to do is move away from the old weight type exercises.  I think I'm going to take some training in gymnastics and yoga and take up swimming.   I've seen some pretty fit and strong gymnasts who do no free-weight exercises.  Gymnastics is also good for flexibility as well as strength.  So is yoga and swimming.  I can combine those with non weight bearing exercises like chin ups, push ups .  Between those three I think I can stay fit and strong for life. 

I'm going this Tuesday or Wednesday for a massage therapy session. I'll post the results of that. Hopefully It will help.

Well, my back is sore so  I'm going to lay upside down like a bat on my inversion table. LOL!  Crazy invention but it works. 

 

[Theo]

you should aim to sort out the imbalance that your chiropractor mentioned, if your hips are unstable then your entire spin eis unstable.

type in the exercises i mentioned into www.bodybuilding.com, i don't bodybuild personally but that is a very good informative site. they are close to gymnastics.

lunges will help even out the imbalance i think they may help you enormously.

although i am just eighteen, so i may eat my words as i age, i think the deadlift is very good, but i think the arch and hip flexibility is VERY important and it's all too easy to cheat on heavy weights.

anyways enough from me, enjoy your massage bro

[LF365]

Thanks .... yeah, I've been to BB.com, it's an okay site. Traditional BB stuff.  I'll do a web search for those exercises. Thanks.  Ask the body building / fitness crowd and they will swear by deadlifts, saying they are one of the best mass building exercises. Oosteopathic physician, doctor of chiropractic, neurosurgeon.. Ya know, specialist who treat backs and they will say the opposite.  All I know is they are not for my spine, that's for sure.  A word from someone older who has been there ... take it easy on your joints and spine while you're young and they will last you many more years as you get older. 

This is a really cool interactive site about the spine...

http://www.masterstouchchiropractic.com/base/3d_spine/nerve_chart/index.htm

[fotakou]

Regarding books,a guy that i totally trust recently suggested in his log to buy The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook - Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief - Clair Davies.He also had back pains but after reading the book and doing what i recommends he found his back to feel much better!Maybe you would like to give it a shot.Things that have worked for me is hanging from a chin bar,raising my legs and staying in a leg raise position.That has worked wonders for easing any back pain.It has helped with lower back and somewhat with my middle back.Dont know if it works for you 

[LF365]

Thanks fotakou I'll look into it.   

[Theo]

hey man you had any progress with lunges?

that's a pretty cool site, i thought the posture page was good.

i have been doing a lot of reading for refining my technique and for a s&c assessment and something i found interesting that is simple yet i didn't know..

.. was that weight bearing with a flexed spine ( bent over) stresses the ligaments and weight bearing with an extended spine stresses the muscles and that people tend to round the back at one point when they lift, whether it be lumbar, sacral or upper thoracic by not sufficently engaging the traps as stabilisers,

if you check out the crossfit website there are some good video tutorials, rippletoe covers the exercises pretty much perfectly, maybe it would be worth assessing and refining your technique, i've found my strength has improved through as better understanding of thephysics of movement, shoulder strength particularly.

now that i think about it there is a book i could recommend to you

health is simple, disease is complicated - james forleo

it is a phenomenal book and it's cheap too, it most of the exercises i advised and so much more in terms of general health.

my stepdad just upgraded his painkillers for back pain, he got a herniated disc years ago and wont do anything about it, stubborn ass. it's good to see you're taking a different road lol.

[LF365]

Thanks for that info...

I had massage therapy a few days ago. It really seemed to help.  It's really strange because for the past few days my back hasn't hurt at all. 90% range of motion improved.  There is still a sore spot though if I bend a certain way.  More than likely my problem is compressed disks, maybe pinched nerve and muscle stress.  I don't think in my case it is anything serious.

I talked to my massage therapist about squats and was told the same thing.  Basically that they compress the spine and they are not good for the body, even if done correctly.  My chiropractor feels the same way too.

A modified version of a barbell-on-shoulder squat would be a using dumbbells held at the side of the body.  In this modified squat move pressure is not directly applied forcing downward on the spine like a barbell-on-shoulder squat would be.  There still is the dynamic of weight and gravity pulling the spine down while holding dumbbells at the side of the body, but not directly pressing down on the spine / vertebrae and disks like a barbell-on-shoulder squat would be doing.  The other exercise to avoid are standing calf raises which also compress the spine.  Sitting calf raises are much better.

Your spine is the foundation of your body, much like the trunk is the foundation of a tree. If you wreck your back you loose practically all mobility.  Its like being crippled. 

There is absolutly no reason to do barbell squats, standing calf raises, or weight-applied hyper extensions or anything else for that matter that compresses or tweaks the spine.  There are alternate exercises that can achieve almost the same results.

The way I think about it is this... If I don't produce that extra 10-20% growth or strength in my lower body by avoiding squats, I'm okay with that. Saving my back is more important.  Also, who am I trying to impress anyway? Nobody actually.  I'd rather do alternate back-saving exercises and achieve 80%-90% of total possible strength and size and save my back, than try to do what everyone else is doing and risk injury.

Just my humble opinion.

[Warrior_Goddess]

Hi LF365.
i read your top post and just skimmed through the thread.  Wolf has some great advice on the stretching and i highly recommend that.

1.  if you have health insurance and you are having serious back pain than you should probably go to your doctor and have them get you into physical therapy, but make sure they teach you to do stretches properly.
2.  if its not that bad and you believe you can manage there is a lot you can do

i was in a bad car accident 3 years ago and hit on my bike 1.5 years ago.  i still have problems to this day but i have gotten so much better. 
here are some things i would recommend.
1.  take baths with epsom salt to relieve and relax you on pain
2.  Traumeel is a homeopathic gel for muscle pain/spasm and ive heard if you apply 3xs a day this will help
3.  get a foam roller and use tennis balls for release on everyday needs
4   get a professional massage and acupuncture like you mentioned you had before
5.  stretch like Wolf suggested.  you should be incorporating a program of them with your workouts.  As an office worker, like me, your poas muscles are shortened and tight and they wrap around to your low back.  do the lunges here to release them.  during busy work days you still should get up from your desk and take stretch breaks!!!  this will keep you lubricated and warmed up durin the day.
6.  Dont forget to massage your gluteal muscles as those are core muscles and can contribute to back pain.  tennis balls can help with that if you dont have a masseuse for this job.

[LF365]

Hi Warrior_Goddess,

Those are great suggestions. Thanks.

Yes stretching is very important. I take a couple of 15 min breaks at work and go for a walk to get circulation flowing and loosen up the stiff muscles.

I'm seriously thinking about getting one of those HoMedics back massage cushions and take it to work for my office chair.  I tried the demo model at the store and they really feel good on back muscles.  They also make one for the feet too that I was thinking about buying.   

Those cushions work much like the foam roller and tennis balls that you suggested.  I've tried those at the gym and yes they do work really well.  The cushions have the balls inside that mechanically move up and down and they can be stopped in certain positions to work out a kink.

http://www.homedics.com/products/massage/back-massage-cushions

Thanks again for the help.

[Warrior_Goddess]

oh and another thing is, if you can afford the investment, get an inversion table.
doing this every night will help with decompression of the spine and stretching.

i got my for $200 on Overstock.com  i dont know if they still sell them but it helps relieve my pain and stretch the spine.

when you go for massage, you should be getting one on a consistent basis like every week or every 2 weeks.  one here and there sporadically will not help with long-term therapy, just temporary since it sounds like you have chronic pain.

also one guy suggested a stretch book and it has been helping me.
"The Permanent Pain Cure"  so far i am enjoying the stretches and the author has great advice on supplementation for natural anti-inflammatory effects.

[LF365]

I bought an inversion table a couple weeks ago off of Craigslist for $100! 

This was such a bargain! It's like a top of the line model $300-$400 table. Memory foam table with foot clamps.