fruit consumption

[peter]

I've been practising the WD for a few years. I have just received the AED book. My question concerns fruit intake. Essentially, i have read at length about the benefits of intermittent fasting. However, it appears that intermittent fasting means the complete abstination from food or rather anthing providing calories. Black coffee is okay though. If calories in any shape or form are consumed during the intermittent fast then one may not receive the benefits associated with intermittent fasting. If this is the case, i think it makes sense to avoid fruit and veg during the day (undereating phase) and then to have a bowl of fruit in the evening, at least 20-30 minutes prior to the main meal, this way you would attain the benefits of intermittent fasting, while still receiving nutrients from fruit and veg.

[DN Moderator]

It's a common practice with WD to eat fresh fruits and veggies while in the "undereating" phase of the diet.  It works very well for most people, based upon the feedback that we've gotten from WD followers.  It's not a matter of not eating calories during the day, but rather a matter of not eating foods that interrupt the body's ability to maintain that mode of "fight or flight" (sympathetic nervous system).  When you eat processed foods, meats, sugars, etc., you trigger the parasympathetic nervous system, which slows the body and puts it into that relaxation, digestive, sluggish mode.

[peter]

One last question concerning fruit consumption: if my main meal is consumed primarily of high fat foods that are low on the food chain such as eggs, nuts, fish and butter, along with herbs and cruciferous veg, would you advise going light on fruit during the day, since i would be consuming an abundance of fat in the evening, or would the fruit consumption (i.e. 3-4 portions of fruit) be neglible, since all the foods consumed in the evening are natural, anti-estrogenic foods. That is to say, could the consumption of fruit be unhealthy if one eats an abundance of good fats?

P.S. i've read approximately 70 pages of the AED book thus far and must say it makes for a very informative read. I immensely look forward to reading the rest of it

[DN Moderator]

Peter thanks for your postings.  From all I know from working with Ori, eating fruits during the day would not be bad for you.  Of course, everyone is different, so you may have to test it out just a bit.  Much of it depends upon your level of health, how detoxified your liver is, and whether or not your blood sugar levels are normal.  If you don't have any issues with the above, I'd say you're good to go.  At any rate, it's your body, so be sensitive to how it responds to certain foods.  Once you've thoroughly detoxed (Phase I), completed the High Fat Phase (II), then you'll be quite sensitive as to what works for you during the Final or Reintroduction Phase of the AEDiet.

[peter]

Sorry, I lied…I have another fruit and veg question: I completely understood, or I did until recently, the rationale for the daily consumption of several portions of fruit and veg, however, after having discussed this issue with several friends, I am not so sure as I once was in terms of the value or importance of eating fruit and veg. That is to say, my friends conveyed very strong arguments for avoiding fruit and veg. Namely, they said that humans cannot derive nutrients from such food because humans cannot digest cellulose; humans, they said, have no enzymes to break down cellulose, unlike animals that are vegetarians, and this is why some people often experience flatulence or diarrhea or discomfort in general after eating fruit and veg. They even said that for thousands of years such foods were not consumed by humans, and that it was only in the last 10,000 years that humans even began eating these foods. They point to peoples/societies who do not eat any fruit and veg and yet seemingly thrive on protein and fat, very similar to the main meal in the second phase of the AED.

Any insight?

Peter

[VT_JD]

Peter, it sounds like your friends are "low-carbers".  The AED certainly isn't low carb. 

For me, the fresh fruits and veggies serve too huge functions.  1) They fill me up and provide me energy with minimal calories...and I don't feel tired after eating them.  2) They provide a lot of healthy benefits (anti-estrogenic properties, fiber, vitamins, minerals, etc.).

If you were to strip fruits and veggies from the AED you would have something very different, something that would sound like Atkins.  Since Dr. Atkins suffered from wild wieght fluctuations during his life and sucummed to heart disease, I'm not buying the low carb schema.  I can't comment on what humans ate during the stone age, but it is hard for me to believe that they just eat meat.  I can only imagine that berries and other veggies would almost certainly have been consumed.

[DN Moderator]

Read Ori's last blog.  Rather appropriate for these last two posts:

Ori's Blog

[charleslong]

and that it was only in the last 10,000 years that humans even began eating these foods. They point to peoples/societies who do not eat any fruit and veg and yet seemingly thrive on protein and fat, very similar to the main meal in the second phase of the AED.

I believe in the Biblical account of creation. The original diet was fruit and veggies.  Of course, everyone is free to believe what they want but based on my beliefs, I think your friends are wrong.

Charles                         

[peter]

Charles, re-read the bible! I think you will find many, many references to the consumption of aninmal protein and fats. For example, in Acts 10:12-16 Peter receives a vision from God, "Rise, Peter, kill and eat". Re-read...you'll find them!

[CFTElite]

Does God's Word not say "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.”

[peter]

I did not mean to imply that the bible does not suggest eating fruit and veg, as well as bread. My point was the bible also suggests that one should eat animal protein and fat. Charles' post seemed to connote that god suggested to eat fruit and veg and nothin else. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[charleslong]

Peter,

My original post was in response to your friends who said that for thousands of years man did not eat these foods. My point was at creation, man's original diet was vegetarian. The first reference to meat eating in the Bible was after the flood when God gave man permission to eat meat. It is quite likely that meat eating started before that but the it wasn't until after the flood that you see meat eating in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does God suggest one eat meat and fat. He gave permission to eat meat and there are many instances of that recorded. Permission and suggestion to do so aren't the same thing. Jesus ate meat. In the Mosaic dietary laws God expressly forbid the eating of animal fat. He never suggested at all that we eat the fat.

I've read the Bible through many times and I read it daily. I am not a trained Bible scholar but I am familiar with what it says. If you will read the entire passage in Acts that you mentioned and take it in the context that it was written you will see that the vision was not about food at all. Peter says in verse 28 that God had shown him not to call any man common or unclean. The Jews considered the Gentiles unclean and the vision was to show Peter that they weren't unclean and to take the Gospel to the Gentiles also. So if you read the whole thing, it interprets itself.

I did not mean to open up a can of worms here. For the record, I do eat meat but not very much. I could be very happy as a vegetarian if I had access to a steady supply of organic fruits and vegetables but I don't. So I hope this clears up what I meant by my first post.

Charles

[DN Moderator]

Preach on Bibliophiles!  The good part is that God gave us each a brain to be able to discern between good and bad foods.   Unfortunately most people out there don't give a second thought to putting "crap" in their mouths.  Fortunately, those of us here are ones that do.  We just have to continue to get the word out so that more people, especially those whom we love, will not continue to get fat and sick. 

Thanks for all of the great posts.  We've obviously got some highly intelligent people on here.  That's pretty refreshing compared to many of the mindless meanderings out there in internet land!

[charleslong]

It's nice to be on a forum where people can be civil even if they disagree. I've been on some where that just isn't the case.

Charles

[peter]

Well said moderator. And, Charles, my apologies. I think i may responded with my post too fervently. Again, sorry for any misunderstanding.