Need the help of the experts...

[pcoste1]

Hello,
I'm a 23 year old male, in good shape, looking to make a shift in eating and workout.  Currently, I strength train and eat as much as I can as often as I can.  I would like to cycle to something more like VO2 Max and Kettlebells, with an eating regimen along the lines of Anti-Estrogen Diet.  I bought the Anti-Estrogen jumpstart kit, and am reading the book.  So my question:  could someone put in plain English the who/what/where/when/how on supplements and vitamins?  Aside from the jumpstart kit, what do I need to buy in regards to vitamins and supplements?  When and how often do I take them?  I'm kind of looking for a list, or something easy to read.  Thanks so much for any help.

-Patrick

[clake16]

best answer I can give you is stay away from supplements all together except for a multi-vit / or something you truley are difficient in.  This diet is all about freedom and getting back to nature.  Supplements are just that - to fill a hole in your diet.  Spend the extra money saved from supplements and buy whole, organic foods.  You really shouldnt need any supplements.  Whole, organic foods will take care of almost everything.

[pcoste1]

Thank you Clake, I appreciate your suggestion.  Sounds very smart and reasonable.  My one concern with this is that I would like to possibly speed up the process if possible, as I intend on cycling this with other eating practices.  So usually I would like to take about 12 weeks for the AED, and then after switch back to the other end of the spectrum (multiple meals frequently throughout the day).

[clake16]

hmn, I understand your thinking, but I'm not sure I agree with it.  This is more of a lifestyle than a cleanse per se.  If you switch back and forth, you will be losing time in a zone of neither while your body transitions from one style to the other.  That time-frame varies from person to person.  I took about a week to really get comfy into this lifestyle, but I've read of people taking up to 4+ weeks to adjust.  So basically what I'm getting at is you could be "wasting" a third of your time in each style.  Also, when you say going back to the other end of the spectrum, do you mean adding back the estrogenic things as well?  Bc if that is the case, your time/money on AED will be greatly wasted IMHO.

Also, as for speeding it up.  I have a hard time believing that adding things like supplements to your body is a good idea for eliminating things.  BUT this is 100% my thinking/reasoning : )  I have no proof/science to back it up.  I've just always been anti-supplments.  This thread may be better addressed by someone else.

But again, this is only one person's opinion.  I'm sure you'll get some more responses to get a different perspective.

[Rachel421]

i know in the first few months of wding, i gave myself "off days" meaning i would eat breakfast, lunch, snack at will. 

in a nut shell, it made me feel awful.  i got so used to the crisp, energetic feeling of the sympathetic nervous system being in high gear that i decided after a few 2-3 "off days", to stop breakfast/lunch for life. not only did the cheat days put me in a tired, sluggish state, but after i resumed wd, it took a couple days to get back on track energy wise. now when i want to relax and cheat a bit, i do it in my window, or lengthen my window a bit, but only a bit.

im not as strict on diet content as most, but when it comes to meal timing, ive found breaking with wd makes me feel too bad.
might be that once you try this out, and go back and forth, you'll see how much better you feel when you free yourself of daytime parasympathetic dominance.  let us know how it works out!

supplements? i dont do them since i cant afford them. might if i could. 

[pcoste1]

Clake and Rachel...

Thank you for the advice.  Clake, when I say other end of the spectrum I refer to the type of diet where one eats as much and as often as possible when strength training.  I guess you could look at it as this type of diet would be "bulking up" while I've used Warrior Diet to "cut down" any fat or unnecessary weight.  As for eating estrogenic things again, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this, as it seems to me most of the world in which we live is estrogenic.  It is one of the reasons as to why I would like to give my body some kind of a break from it all, and to let it cleanse itself.

Rachel...I know you said you don't use any supplements, but do you know of any reference guides for the what/how/when?  Also, are there any extra estrogen inhibitors needed aside from what is provided in the anti estrogen jumpstart kit?

Thanks again

[clake16]

All I'm saying is that if you really want to get to the point where you can cut fat/add muscle at will, I think you would be better served to follow the same diet for each, but tweak what you eat in that diet.  Your body will be adjusting too much going back and forth to really get a feel for how much of what you need specifically.  There are body builders that follow WD.  It's more important to control what you eat on any diet. 

When I said started eating estrogenic things, thats what I meant.  AED is mainly an IF style diet, but the main focus is to cut out all food/products that are estrogenic and add in foods that inhibit estrogen.  So, I was saying that if you plan on going from strict AED to the other end but re-introduce the the estrogenic things you cut out, your money is wasted on the anti-estrogenic supplements since you'll be re-consuming them.  It seems to me like we're using the same term AED to mean 2 different things.  You seem to be talking more about detox in general than specifically Anti estrogenic.  I think that may be part of our confusion.

[pcoste1]

Clake, I apologize if I am coming across as though I disagree.  I value your opinions and most of all your experience with the diet.  My situation is that I bought the detox kit, and wanted to try out the diet.  Particularly I was going to follow all three phases/weeks very strictly adhering to the rules.  It was my hope that this period would give my body some time to cleanse and to take a rest from the ultra estrogenic world in which we live.  I admittedly am ignorant to the specifics of the diet, as I haven't completed reading it, so I assume that I will follow the diet strictly for 3 or 4 weeks, than do what is manageable for my life/situation.  From what I do gather so far, Ori seems very much in favor of using supplements while on the diet.  And when I say supplements I include the anti aromatase extracts (such as those found in estro x).  As for the other supplements, he does provide a list for those recommended.  My one problem with this is how and when to use them, how much to use, etc.  I know you said most aren't needed, but what is your opinion of probiotics?  Also, I'm curious to see if you know anything about everyday items that have estrogenic qualities, i.e. lotions, soaps, etc.  Are these to be avoided?  Do I even need to worry about them if I'm eating in a way that the diet recommends?  Thanks again for all your help so far, I really appreciate it.
-Patrick

[clake16]

No worries man.  I didn't take the AED to the extent of checking into all the lotions and soaps etc.  I'm sure some are bad, but like I said, I just didnt take it that far.  If you do some research, keep us updated on what you find.  One thing I can def recommend is using coconut oil for most everything topical.  Here's some good info on the benefits/uses.

http://www.treelight.com/health/nutrition/CoconutOil.html

As far as recommened supplements go, keep in mind he also sells them all : )  Not to say they don't help, but I just believe if you clean up your diet that is about all you will need.  Since you already have the detox kit use it.  I'm pretty sure once you start reading the book he gives sample days of what to eat and when (including what supplements) for each phase.  If not, you can always call the office and talk to a WD/AED certified trainer or Ori himself:  818.342.1927

Also, you mention wanting to do 3-4 weeks for a break from estrogen.  Don't get me wrong, that is def a good thing to do.  I just wouldn't plan on going back to the way you were before : )  but im done with that now.  I really think after you experience some of the benefits of this eating style/detox you will be hooked.

P.S. probiotics are one thing  I can see taking.  But again, I'm pretty sure if you can find raw dairy, that will supply them too.  Not 100% sure on that though.

[cayenne-diet]

Thank a lot,,